What can be said when people argue that "plants suffer too"?

Question

Inspired by this question, that is a kind of a guide to "diplomatic relations" with non-veg*s, I'd like to ask what could be good answers to the oft-repeated assertion that "plants suffer too".

The dialogue goes roughly like:

A: "ok, so you're vegan, why?"
Me: "I want to avoid animal suffering"
A: "you're wrong, since plants suffer too"

How do you answer to that? How could you communicate that the respect for animals is not detracted from by the fact that plants show response to external stimuli?

Answer 1

My favourite reply:

So you have compassion for plants?

You'd better go vegan, then, since it takes a lot more plants to feed to animals to feed to humans than it takes to feed humans directly with plants.

Answer 2

In addition to Zanna's answer, I would - depending on the situation - mention the uncertainty about the correctness of that statement. While with animals we can be pretty much sure about this, because of their nervous system, with plants there is no evidence for this. Simple responses to stimuli do not imply the ability to feel pain.

Despite this, in general I think the technique that Zanna mentioned is better from the argumentational point of view because it quickly and deftly turns what was meant as an argument against into an argument for eating only plants.

Answer 3

I've become so fed up with people saying this to me that I usually just remind them the definition of veganism.

A vegan is a person who does not eat or use animal products. Nowhere does it say "a person who does not cause plants to suffer".

Usually at this point in the conversation though, I know it's time to leave, because the person making this statement without any interest in the actual answer. They've come to insult and jab.

Answer 4

Well, you've got to eat something. Could one not simply argue that consuming plants is the lesser (of many) evils?

We know that animals are conscious to some degree, have nervous systems, and experience pain. Surely that it is possible to fulfill our nutrient needs without exploiting animals ought to be enough. Considering that more plants (and water) are used for animal feed, in a sense we're eating less of them too (than if we ate them via animals).

Answer 5

My answer is:

If you think plant suffer, you should stop eating plants. (I leave out the part "instead of telling me to")

Sometimes, they come back with "But I don't care about what I eat, I eat everything."

To which, I say "So you don't care about what you eat, but care about what I eat?".

Note: This isn't really meant to convince anyone, but most people who ask this are not out looking for a reason to convince. I have little interest in changing other people's diets. Just want to be left alone with my vegan diet, without someone trying to tell me how illogical it is. And this question comes, not infrequently, from people who seem like they would never consider giving up meat. For those who are sincerely considering a veg. diet, I give considerate answers about the effect the diet has had on me, how I get around the things people most worry about (protein anxiety, for example). But these sincere folks never ask this stupid question.

Answer 6

No, they don't.

The burden of proof always rests with the person who makes a prima facie implausible statement. Otherwise you could 'prove' anything 'until disproved' (such as the existence of a huge spaghetti monster that floats above the clouds and has created the earth).

Someone who claims, unless disproved, that plants suffer (where suffering has a conventional meaning, presupposing at least sentience) commits the logical fallacy of 'argument from ignorance'.

Answer 7

This is how I would like to argue:

You need to show the sympathy to the things which you see first, If you are cutting a hen or a cow, it screams and shouts, you need to feel the pain what it is undergoing. When I cut a plant I don't hear or see anything.

Also first and foremost I am not vegetarian because I don't like to hurt animals. I am a vegetarian because I believe that I am also an animal just like cow or a buffalo, Me being an animal why should I kill another animal to survive, when I have plants.

But technically, when you eat any veggies or fruits, you are actually not killing anything there. You are eating an apple or an orange and leaving the tree to grow some more. This is not the case with non-vegetarian food.

Answer 8

A slightly different perspective: It is true that plants also suffer/react. Refer J C Bose's experiments. But animals suffer more obviously.

To minimise even the harm caused to plants, there's a diet followed by some Indians : no food grains, no animal products. Only fruits and similar food. Why ? Because fruits often drop from the tree and the tree is not harmed, while to eat grains, one has to uproot the plant.

However, the basic argument will be that everyone has to choose their level of non-violence. It can't be imposed. And it is certainly easier to make a transition from non vegetarian​ to vegetarian but much more difficult for vegetarian to fruit diet.

Answer 9

It is said that "Eat to live rather than live to eat". Moreover one has to eat something to live. So why not choose the one that suffers least, if plants suffer at all!

Answer 10

Plants suffer too. The answer to this question depends on where you are coming from, so let me answer this from my religious point of view.

In order to minimise harming plants, you do not consume root vegetables. You do not completely cut down a plant, you allow it to grow. You take all necessary steps not to kill the plant. This is in sharp contrast to being non-vegetarian.

Answer 11

There are constructive and nonconstructive criticism or vegetarianism. I'm not sure whether one should dive into any kind of discussion with someone who is using argumentation of this level and quality however ok, one can answer following:

1. Not all vegetarians are not consuming food because they think animal suffers. While it would be true in many cases, still, it's not about any moral reflection but rather than about the mere fact some someone eats only plant-based food.
2. We have no scientific evidence of plants suffering and feeling pain in the way animals do.
3. Even if vegetarianism or veganism was choosen on an ethical basis and even plants do suffer - as a live being we all just have to eat something. It's a reasonable trade off between staying alive and trying being ethical - even if plants are alive, animals are way more close to us than any plant could be.

Answer 12

Great question that any vegan has heard :-D Try one of the following:

1. Well, yeah. That's why there are people who practice Sattvic or Jain diet. You wanna join?

   Some sattvic people even prefer only fruits fallen from the tree - since they are "given" - the highest form of accepting something (not taking forcefully).

2. So is that a justification for you supporting animal suffering?

   We all know that these people argue because they feel threatened; they are not concerned about plants; they need to justify to themselves why they can stick to their diet without feeling bad. They may not know they are doing it. Make them conscious of it.

3. Many more plants will be suffering due to your meat-based diet.

   ... since the amount of plants that the animal needs to eat will be much more than would be equivalent to the meat they produce.

4. Organisms do not suffer the same way. The more intelligent the being is, the more it can be in resistance, and thus it can suffer more. The most suffering are thus humans, apes, then other mammals (cows, pigs), then birds, fish, and the most surrendered (and thus least suffering) are plants.

The last point goes to the core. Science won't confirm that plants suffer yet; so based on your belief, you can either argue that they are not suffering (but, being a honest scientist, you cannot be sure, right?), or, being more of an intuitive/spiritual person, you have to find answer elsewhere. This is very insightful and in-depth answer for this very question from Teal Swan (also listen at 15:16).